Episode OverviewIn this episode, Trish joins Shireen to discuss her move from Hollywood, FL to Hollywood, CA to pursue a career in entertainment, despite many people advising her not to. She further shares her experiences working with countless celebrities and building a successful career in LA, and then ultimately asking the big question: “What else is out there?” Tune in to learn how Trish went from working with Oprah to working with women fighting homelessness and listening to stories on Skid Row.
CEO - Edvo
Trish LindoTrish Lindo has over 20 years of experience in the Los Angeles media and entertainment industry. She currently works at BuzzFeed/Tasty and previously had success working for companies such as Maker Studios, OWN, CNN, and Yahoo. Trish is also passionate about social impact and volunteering. She’s a mentor for EmpowHer, which supports high school girls from marginalized communities. She’s also a volunteer and Brand ambassador for the Downtown Women’s Center social enterprise store Made by DWC.
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Shireen Jaffer 0:01
Hey everybody, this is Shireen I’ve got my dear friend Trish that I’ve known for quite some time from just working together volunteering together in so many different ways. Trish, it’s great to have you.
Trish Lindo 0:15
Thank you for having me Shireen. This is so exciting. I’m so happy that you have me on your podcast. This is awesome.
Shireen Jaffer 0:21
Of course My pleasure. I mean, I feel like we’ve known each other now for probably seven or so years. Yeah.
Trish Lindo 0:33
I’ve known you so long that I feel like time doesn’t even matter anymore. What is time anyways?
Shireen Jaffer 0:42
Trish has a really interesting story because over the years she’s spoken on so many panels with me, where we shared her background, how she got to where she is today, with a ton of students and recent grads and I’ve always been able to hear some different imprint element of her story which makes her who she is in such a beautiful way. So very excited to share her story with all of you today. Trish, I know one of the nicknames you had for a long time. I don’t know if people still call you this, but Hollywood.
Moving from Hollywood, FL to Hollywood, CA (1:17)
Yes. There’s still like a couple of people that call me Hollywood, which I don’t mind. But I’ll tell you the story. Yeah, yeah. So basically, I grew up in Hollywood, Florida, which a lot of people don’t know it’s a small city in between Miami and Fort Lauderdale. And I and when I moved to LA, I was living in North Hollywood and worked in Hollywood. So one of my friends actually started calling me Hollywood because they thought it was cute, obviously. So and then I had this thing where I would like wear my shades and everything like that as you do in LA, and it just kind of stuck for a little bit, you know? And they everybody just thought it was funny and it was just like, hey, Hollywood. Oh, hollywood Hollywood’s here. You know?
Shireen Jaffer 2:16
I’m, I know you mentioned this you drove from Hollywood, Florida, to Hollywood, California during a time in your career where that was not what you were advised to do. You got a completely opposite set of advice. So tell us more about that movie.
Trish Lindo 2:34
Yeah, of course. So I initially thought I was going to be on camera talent or a reporter, if you will. So I studied broadcast journalism at Florida a&m University. And, you know, I thought this is what I want to do for sure. You know, I was really good at writing and I was really good at presenting on camera and Um, I was like, ready to do it, you know, in my mind, I thought that I was basically going to come out of college and just, you know, be on CNN or something right away, you know. But that wasn’t the case. And one of my professors was telling me that, you know, how you start off, you got to start in a small town, you know, like the 200, and something market or whatever that no one’s ever heard of, and you’re probably going to be, you know, covering, you know, PTA meetings and farm stories and everything like that. So really, really small towns, you know, that you probably never heard of, and I was like, oh, okay, well, I don’t I don’t know about that. That didn’t sound exciting to me at all. So for me, I was just sort of like, well, what is it that I really want to do and what did I enjoy? And at the time, I was a huge fan of pop culture and consumer Everything is entertainment and fun. And I knew everything about celebrities and music. And I was like, I want to work in entertainment. I wonder if I can be on camera in, in the entertainment field. But at the time, I wasn’t sure how to get it done or what to do. I was in Atlanta for a little bit, not long because my parents had moved there while I was still in school. So I went home and, you know, after having some conversations with different like professors and everything. There was one of my friends actually, she was pretty cool. She had an internship at ESPN. And I thought she was just like, the coolest. And I was like, Oh my god, how did you get that internship? You know, and because she was a huge fan of sports, and she was like, Oh, you know, I talked to this one person and they gave me really great advice. And I asked them if I could talk to them. This person had been in the industry. A lot. on time, I’ll be in sports for some time, but they knew the business they had lived in New York and everything like that. And so I was fortunate enough to talk to this person and, and I told him what I wanted to do. And they said, Well, you know, you either need to be in New York or LA if that’s what you want to do. And I was like, Okay, cool. And so I decided for me that la was the best bet because the weather was closest to Florida. And I was like, yeah, LA. It’s like on the other side of the country, it seems so cool.
Everything I saw on TV at the time about la just everyone seemed really down to earth. They were wearing shorts all the time. And life just seemed fun. You know? So I was like, Yeah, I want that lifestyle. So they told me they were like, Hey, don’t go out there without a car. Do not do it. So I stayed in Atlanta for about three months and worked a temp job to save up some money for downpayment. For a car, I wanted to get a brand new one. Because I didn’t want to take like, you know, something old. So I stayed. And that was my whole goal was saving money to get a car. And I ended up saving up like 1500 dollars from like my temp job. And I got a car. And then I would say probably within the next two weeks, like I packed up my car, I didn’t have much. I asked one of my friends who loves adventure as much as I do. And I was like, you gotta ride with me and she was like, yeah, this is gonna be so much fun. So she hopped in our house, hear and feel about this. You know, my parents are they’re conservative, but supportive. You know, they’re like, well, we don’t want you living that far. But I mean, obviously, you know, we want you to be happy and we know this what you’re interested in, but can’t you find something here and maybe Georgia or Florida? And I’m like, no, it’s got to be LA. That’s like entertainment capital. Like, that’s where I want to be. And, you know, and I was like, I watch EA all the time. Like, this is what I want to do. So they weren’t thrilled about it. Um, and obviously sad, but, you know, they knew they couldn’t stop me once I’ve got something in my mind. It was a wrap. I’m doing it.
Shireen Jaffer 7:24
So, is that how is that how you grew up? Is that are those the traits that you showed all throughout your childhood?
Trish Lindo 7:32
Yes, pretty much. Um, you know, I come from a pretty big family. I have four brothers and one sister. And I was the second. So I, you know, spent a lot of time like helping my family raised my siblings. And so I didn’t go out a lot like I didn’t have like that traditional high school like experience and all that where you got to go to parties and people have like, You know, things that they would do with friends on the weekends, like, my job was babysitting my siblings. So anytime I need to go anywhere my parents were like, yeah, you’re not doing that. And I was like, great. So a lot of my time was spent, like either babysitting, reading and prepping for that next stage in my life. And my parents just were, they just kind of let me do my own thing. I was a good kid, you know, the good girl, so they didn’t have to worry about me. So I think it was part of that. It wasn’t like, you know, I was sort of like this kid that they kind of always had to constantly wrangle. I had a good head on my shoulders at a very young age. So I think once I finished college, I think I don’t think they were surprised that I wanted to leave but they just weren’t happy about it because they could no longer control the situation because I was over 18
Shireen Jaffer 8:59
That’s interesting. To me that you, I mean, you got, I think advice, taking advice from people. Going back to your advice from your professor, and then your advice from the person in the industry that your friend connected you to, right. I always tell people, it is so important to take everyone’s advice. Like, you know, as it’s a grain of salt, because it comes down to whether it applies to you or not. And I remember I totally aligned with your story by your professor, because when I was in school, you know, this, you know, I started my last company when I was 19. And at the time, obviously, it wasn’t a company and I remember going to my professor, who was my humanities teacher, or professor, and she had puzzles with her every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. And the way it worked at USC was Tuesdays and Thursdays are your big lecture days. They’re two hours long and then Friday, you have a 15 minute discussion. gushin every week, so I realized because skill if I was both in Northern California and Southern California, one Friday out of the month, I would meet to be in Northern California for four weeks. And I go up to my professor and I say, and I tell her what I’m doing I A Trish knows everyone because she was such an incredible mentor as vilified. But still if I was in high school students find internships and connect with mentors and really explore their interests. So I would like to say that’s very socially Good work. I go up to my professor and I tell her this and I tell her I’ll have to miss discussions once a month. And I would love to know how I can make it up and I brought my ideas to the table to really show that I’m not taking her class lightly by any means. And she straight up laughed in my face. Said college is not for starting businesses, college. Just from learning, and then you get a job. And then when you have enough money, you start a business. Right? And I knew this was what 2012 I mean, it was not that long ago. And it was definitely during a time where, you know, this whole college dropout or entrepreneurship and college hack us even had an entrepreneurship program for undergraduate. So her advice was totally misguided. And I, a lot of people, fortunately, I had so many mentors, that that showed me that advice wasn’t right for me. But I think a lot of people when they get advice from, you know, people that they are told are, quote unquote, authority, or old, especially as we grew up in the education system, right. We’re taught to respect our teachers and respect our professors. I think it’s really important to recognize advice as Justice And you have to know whether it aligns with you or not. So I’m very happy that you were able to recognize that when you first got the advice around, you know, where you should move and how to really get your foot in the door.
Trusting Your Gut (12:11)
Yeah, thank you. Um, and I think it’s the same for you as well, you know, is, knowing which advice to take is very key. But what I’ve noticed, though, is that, you know, sometimes you don’t know, you know, you don’t know who to listen to how do you know what’s good advice and what’s not good advice? You know? I mean, I still ask myself that every day actually. Um, but you know, what I do is I run on my gut, you know, and I would suggest to everybody is that that feeling that you get that says, this is the direction that I need to go? That’s the correct one, you know, to listen to. Because in a world there’s a world here now what we’re getting information from everywhere, right? We’re getting information from our family, friends, social media, you know, we’re that sort of thing. So sometimes it’s hard to decipher, like, which direction should I go? Like, what makes sense, you know? And if you’re young and getting started, and you don’t really have like that sort of compass quite yet, I would definitely suggest kind of going with your gut. I and that’s what I did. Because I knew what was going to make me happy. I knew that, you know, going to a small town wasn’t gonna work for me. I love big cities. I love entertainment. And if that wasn’t really happening, I was probably I would have probably gone to some small town and just pieced out after like, a month, you know? Yeah. With like, no explanation. Like, I gotta go.
Shireen Jaffer 13:53
You know, I think there’s so much value and recognizing, you know, yourself best. And I, a lot of people say, unfortunately, you know, don’t follow your gut instinct and use your logic. And I think it’s a balance. I think you remember yourself best. I know so many times in my life, I’ve had this overwhelming sense of this is absolutely not what I need to be doing. I am so in the wrong place or the opposite. This is exactly where I need to be a lot of what I feel recently, which I’m very, very proud of. So I, I do, I do agree, I think, yes, use that gut instinct. If you feel like you need to validate it through logic. Sure, go ahead and do that. But it’s not one or the other. And I think we’re definitely as a society kind of become very, you know, it’s mutually exclusive. It’s one or the other. And I just don’t think that’s it.
Trish Lindo 14:50
Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like to that we as a society is definitely sort of moving into This space where self awareness has become much more important. And I think in the age of our technology, you know, obviously it’s been a great thing, especially now during social distance and everything like that. But it’s in those quiet moments that we have to sort of kind of own that skill of listening to that inner voice and knowing what’s best for us, you know, so I’m loving it right now.
Shireen Jaffer 15:25
Yeah, I mean, I think it definitely an important moment. I know a lot of people are struggling and I know a lot of people are suffering and that does not feel good by any means. I do believe though there is also an opportunity here to take a minute and I think a lot of people are in there. They’re realizing Wow, I don’t necessarily like the way my life feels. This this quote was calling around on social media but I you know, I do agree with that. I think there’s this I don’t agree with much on social media, but To it said, You know, I think a lot of people are beginning to recognize it’s not about how your life looks. It’s about how your life feels. Hmm. That’s a good one. It’s, it’s true. You know, I think people are realizing, wow, I’m in my home. And maybe I don’t like the people in my home, whether it’s a roommate, whether it’s a partner, whether, frankly, it’s your family, or they realize, wow, I appreciate this so much more. And I feel like I don’t spend enough time nurturing these relationships, but they’re so beautiful, and I actually enjoy my time. So it’s that self awareness is definitely almost being forced on a lot of people right now. And I’m not a big fan of forcing anything. But I do recognize this as an opportunity here for just people to sit with themselves and see what’s important to them and what’s not.
Trish Lindo 16:53
Exactly No, I completely agree. I’ve been doing a lot of that myself. And you know, It’s not easy to sit with yourself, you know, it’s you’re looking at a mirror of yourself on a day to day basis during this time, and sometimes the things that you’re seeing aren’t easy or the things that you have been doing for a while you realize, you know, maybe I shouldn’t be doing that, you know. So I’ve been definitely enjoying this time where I’ve had more time to be still and not feel the need to be everywhere all the time. It’s been really, really great for me, honestly.
Shireen Jaffer 17:34
I was glad. I’m glad to hear that. I think it’s one thing I was talking to my colleague about was, how guilty if we weren’t in this era of physical distancing, social distancing. You know, staying home is something you often feel guilty about, right? I gotta get out. You got to see this. You got to do that. You’ve got to get sunshine. And there’s all these things. telling you what to do, where much of your time and your mental power is feeling guilty and not just do I want to do this and you know, just being okay with that. And now I realize I’ve and again, I’m coming from a very privileged place to be able to even say this, but I am healthier than I have been in a really long time. I’m saving more money than I ever have. I’m investing more than I have ever had. I’ve, you know, frankly, had way more conversations with friends and family members than I’ve ever had. And it’s not because I have more time necessarily, although that is true. That’s one of the reasons but it’s because I also don’t have to spend so much mental power feeling guilty about non doing things that socially we are told to do. I feel okay, you know, going out for two walks a day because I have this incredible dog that I need to take for a walk. But it doesn’t mean I need to also be at the beach and take in the sunshine and You know, all those things that that you’re told you must do to stay healthy?
Trish Lindo 19:04
Right, right. No, that’s great. I love it. I don’t have a dog. So I just take myself for a walk.
From a Career in Entertainment to Skid Row (19:13)
So tell me I mean, speaking of sitting with yourself and realizing what you do and do not like, you have had an incredible, incredibly competitive career to say the least. Yeah. You work in industry that is known to be ruthless, that is known to be, you know, go go go, you must perform at your highest level or even higher than that. So tell us a little bit more about the type of work you’ve done just so our listeners have some context. And then what I really want to get into is, you know, in in that industry in this lavish, glamorous industry, were there moments where you felt Oh, no, this this is not the not me. This isn’t This isn’t what makes me me. I would love to know more there.
Trish Lindo 20:03
Yeah, of course. Um, so you know, my career started off. I started off as a PA at E entertainment in live events. I stayed at a little over a year and went off into being a freelancer. And a lot of it at the time was doing a lot of red carpets. So I was going to movie premieres and they needed people who could just ask celebrities questions, and they needed people who write I was leading a very glamorous life on the weekends because most junkets were at the four seasons in Beverly Hills. And I wasn’t making a lot of money. So you got provided lunch, and they have the most amazing cookies there. So for me, I was like, yeah, I’m cool with spending all weekend at the four seasons. Yeah, uh huh. And, and, you know, it was a world That I was good at, you know, I was really, really good at it. I knew how to sort of navigate the world of publicists and managers and really sort of talk to those people because they’re the gatekeepers, you know, you’re not going to talk to Julia Roberts unless you are actually have a relationship with her manager, you know, or her publicist, you’re not going to talk to Halle Berry unless you have a relationship with that person. So I really learned how to build relationships in that world because they were key to my job. I’ve been to some of the biggest premieres in the world. I’ve been to some of the biggest stars in the world, their homes and interviewed them and sat down on their couch and talk to their kids. And, you know, it was really, really fun. But I got to a point in my career, it was just kind of like, what else is there? You know, I’ve literally talked to every famous person I know people I all my friends worked in the business. We consumed entertainment, we Talk about celebrities. I watched entertainment. It was just an overload. And I was very fortunate at the time that I was at CNN. And they were having a volunteer day. But I couldn’t go. They were having a volunteer at the downtown Women’s Center in LA, which helps homeless, homeless women experiencing homelessness, get back on their feet. So but I couldn’t go that day because I was on a shoot. So I asked, I was like, Well, hey, I still want to volunteer. Is there a way that I can still get involved, they gave me the information and I called and I was able to do an orientation within two weeks of that call. And then I ended up volunteering at their not for profit store called made by PwC. for about five plus years, and for me at the time, I was like this, this is good. This feels good. The fact that I’m giving back out I volunteered there every Saturday every other Saturday. And it was just something that was so fulfilling. It wasn’t about money. It wasn’t about, you know, somebody wanting something from you. It was really, for me something that personally like made my spirit feel good.
And I was like, wow, this is really, really good. Like, you know, I spent so much time thinking about, you know, my next job or the world of celebrities, that I sort of forgot that there are people in this world who don’t have everything you know, or have nothing, and how can I be of support to them. And if it’s just about, you know, working at a store for no payment, or, you know, promoting the store and telling people, hey, you can donate clothes, all the proceeds go back to helping women. If that’s the smallest thing that I can do, then sign me up, you know, and I made some really great friends there. And I had the opportunity to listen to some of the women who had gone through some of the worst times in their lives. And for some of them were still going through and they were just trying to get back on their feet. And what’s interesting is that, you know, our society sort of makes you think, or and then it’s not absolute, obviously, but it makes you think that, you know, people who are homeless, the reason why they’re that that happened to them is, you know, oh, they don’t want to get a job or Oh, you know, they don’t want to put in the work, you know, that sort of thing. But that’s not the case. You know, what I found a lot of people it’s just, I mean, for everybody’s story is different, obviously, you know, a string of bad luck. You know, I remember one woman who, you know, said that she was trying to escape an abusive boyfriend and, you know, do Didn’t have family to fall back on. And, you know, I spoke to another woman who lost her job got sick and couldn’t afford to pay her medical bills. And next thing, you know, she couldn’t afford her apartment, and then she was evicted. And so it’s like this domino effect. And sometimes Sure, sometimes, you know, there are drugs involved and people who become addicts and everything like that, but I was I was very moved by hearing a lot of those women’s stories, and it changed me for the better.
Shireen Jaffer 25:36
Yeah, I think it’s so true that we live, it’s really easy to have this, you know, almost like things are reduced in our society in a way. You know, I I so that’s cool. If I would go and talk to hundreds of thousands of students right over the years and The first questions when we would do these presentations in their classes we ask is, you know why? Why do you feel like people don’t get their dream job? Why do you don’t get a job that meets their needs, their lifestyle requirements? And the first answer that we would get from, again, hundreds of thousands of these students was, they don’t work hard enough. And I don’t know where this comes from where we’ve been, our kids believe, and many adults believe that in order to have a good job, working hard is will guarantee that and if you’re not working hard, that is the reason why you’re in really terrible situations. And it’s, there’s so many more variables than that. Absolutely. Up to this, you know, reductionist mindset where there there is more complexity to this, and I don’t think people can I don’t think we can’t really understand until we’re willing to understand until we’re willing to listen and talk and discuss and empathize. And I think that, unfortunately is lost because we’ve the way our even our education system works that’s really about competing, it’s about focusing on yourself and your grades and your test scores. And you really become kind of stuck in your own world. And you don’t get that exposure to other perspectives. And that’s where I also feel like, you know, it’s so important to have diversity around it’s so important to have, have our kids specially in schools, going out into the real world and experiencing and immersing and not being in a classroom where they’re usually around people that are like them, they live in community, they probably have the same type of socio economic level. It’s it’s really easy to feel like that’s your world. And that’s the only thing in this world.
Developing Perspectives (28:08)
Trish Lindo 28:08
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that you know, my time there and I and I still am a part of made by PwC as there’s two locations for the downtown Women’s Center in downtown LA. There’s one the there’s the main location, which is the biggest location on San Pedro, right in the heart of Skid Row. And then there’s another location on Los Angeles Street, which was the original downtown Women’s Center. It’s smaller, but it’s right next to the store. So my, for a long time, my job was to walk between those two locations, because I was pulling clothes from the store, going back to the location and also grabbing clothes that people were donating at the bigger location. So I had to learn really quick how to get over my fear. It’s Skid Row. So, you know, for those of people who don’t know what Skid Row is, it is, you know, it’s it’s a lot of homelessness that is in that one small area. It’s not the cleanest, it’s not the nicest, it’s just people everywhere there. And when I’m in downtown LA, especially in that area, there is no fear for me, you know, and I’m not saying that, you know, obviously, I’m down there at night or whatever. But when you have sort of put in your mind that you’re there to help, it takes away a lot of that fear. And I tried to treat everyone with respect and everybody kindly. I wouldn’t have probably been able to do that unless I had those experiences with the downtown Women’s Center. Never in a million years. You know, because it’s just given me another perspective, a new perspective on how to see people
Shireen Jaffer 30:00
perspective is key, in my opinion, I think you’re you like so for example, I feel like this, just the value perspective can be applied to so many different things. Obviously helping people and being empathetic of situations and recognizing what’s really going on. That’s so important. I think it’s really easy to just see what’s there on the surface and do a quick judgment call and, and it’s often not representative of the truth and what’s actually going on. So absolutely perspective helps there. Another thing perspective helps is with is just learning that, honestly, no one really has an idea of what the right thing is oftentimes, everyone has an opinion, right? And that’s okay. But perspective helps you gather those opinions, get obviously a variety of perspectives so that you can identify where works for you. And I think that’s really winner. we’ve kind of gone wrong with how we’ve been taught to think in a way, right we’ve, we’ve grown up in, in a world where kids and us as kids, when we were kids, were told here are the things you learn. And here’s what you learn about those things. And it’s very much from a perspective and usually only one perspective. So it doesn’t allow the opportunity for us to discuss what are the other opinions out there? And why are those the opinions and how did things get to the way they are? And now how do I get all the information I have and with my own understanding from within and with my own gut instinct, what are the things that I align with and want to dig deeper and go deeper towards so I think perspectives really helpful. And also just building relationships with people as a partner also really embedded this in me honestly is, you know, he would talk to anyone, regardless of their profession, regardless of how they look. He just talks to me anyway. story and he wants to just talk and you know, make jokes. And yeah, he’s, he’s gotten this gift of just having people open up to him and tell him their stories. And more often than not, I’ve found it comes from, you know what you just mentioned a life of bad experiences. Mm hmm. They really tried to escape. But unfortunately, their environment and the level of access we have to resources just isn’t there yet to truly be able to escape those markers. Right. So I’ve talked to so many mothers that, you know, had to escape abusive relationships and they would go out to seek help and, you know, wouldn’t get that help and then they would find out, let’s say they’re pregnant. The only way you could get support is if you show you live in a home and can Care for the child. So for the program, they’re forced to go back into home live in that abusive relationship, just so in depth support financially, right. And these things are happening all the time where we essentially allow the circle of abuse the circle of bad situations to continue, we actually contribute to that because of the way our policies are set up, right, refused to just take a minute and look under the hood instead of you know, just judging the cover and making people live to the ideals we’ve said as a society as the only way to flourish. You must you can only flourish if you live in a two parent home and have a roof over your head X ray.
The Pandemic and Employer-Employee Relationships (33:46)
Yeah. No, I agree with that. It’s it’s unfortunate that that’s the way our society is set up. And, and I think, you know, unfortunately, during this time, you know, during this time pandemic, it’s really shining on light on everything that has been broken for so long. You know, and I feel like my personal thing is that I think corporations can play a big part of solving those issues. You know, sure government as well. But if government can’t step in, I feel like corporations should be the ones to provide the fundings and support that people in need. Need to threat to thrive?
Shireen Jaffer 34:33
I think it’s, it’s more complex than that. I think. It’s this relationship we’ve built between corporations and people, between employers and employees is inherently flawed. And the reason I say that is if you logically think about what’s what’s really happened, right, millions of people have lost their livelihood overnight. Right and reason why they’ve lost it is yes, there was environmental issue that that hit us globally. But these corporations and as a business owner, myself, I or stand as a business, the choices we have to make, these corporations are being told that in order to survive, and there’s many corporations and businesses that do good work for the world, but in order to continue to do that work, you have to make sure you have enough money in the bank to be able to, you know, wait this out. Right, right. We’re a lot of startups, for example, that do good. We are told that, you know, the in the fundraising landscape is going to be impacted significantly and, and we have to just kind of be self sufficient and not rely on any sort of external, you know, source which is, which is fun. What that means is, yeah, there’s a lot of companies that are laying people off. There’s a lot of companies that are saying, look, we’ve got to do what’s right for this mission and, and we will survive, we can pay your bills for what, six months, seven months, then the whole business dies. Because, you know, that’s just how it is on a business. So all that to say, employer employee relationship is inherently flawed, because people rely people have to rely on one source for their income for their. And so a lot of people, of course, you know, we talk about corporations should have better health benefits I should do and see. I would rather that people get paid enough to be able to rely on themselves to be self sufficient to cover those costs for themselves. Because then they don’t have to rely on institution. I mean, we have more problems with how expensive health insurance and all these things are. That’s a separate conversation, right? But the essence that I’m trying to get to is how do we as a society move towards greater self reliance, and resilience and greater leverage as a whole. How does one person have multiple sources of income and they can freelance and live a lifestyle that serves them and serves the people around them without being part of this traditional employer employee relationship, and there’s jobs out there where that may not make sense. But I think for the majority, it does make sense. However, today only a minority amount of jobs are are actually freelance right, or want people to have that type of control over their careers.
Trish Lindo 37:27
Yeah, I see your point on that, for sure. And I and I do think that a lot of people probably would prefer an increase in income and be able to support themselves outside of a corporation. Especially now with so many people losing their jobs and obviously, losing your job means that you lose your health insurance unless you can afford to pay for Cobra which is pretty expensive. But I think you know, yeah, I mean, we could probably talk about this for hours. But it’s it’s such a huge issue, that it needs a complete overhaul of how we do business in this country, and it starts at the top, and then it’s, you know, then it goes to corporations and just kind of even to the way we think about our society and our capitalism and everything. So yeah,
Shireen Jaffer 38:22
I think it starts everywhere. Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah. I don’t think we can just rely on that starting at the top right. I think something that I care deeply about is just inspiring people to think for themselves. I think so much of this is coming from a personal recognition of Wow, so much of what I believe in, is influenced by very specific sources, like didn’t even realize were the sources. So for example, news publications, right. I certain publications, I’ve always felt were credible, but when you go behind the scenes and look at who they’re owned by and what their agendas are, You recognize, wow, you only get sound bites of a lot of the things that they put out because they’re just trying to make a point. And they’re trying to inflict their opinion and their agenda onto your way of thinking. So it really comes down to, again, perspective. Cool. Okay, that’s one perspective. But that doesn’t mean that is what you believe in and develop conviction in and move forward. It’s really inspiring people to take a minute and recognize Why is why do you believe the things that you believe in? Where beliefs come from? Do you agree with those things? And if not, or if you’re just curious, let’s question more. Let’s start talking more let’s let’s on an individual level, figure out what allows you to do the things that make you feel more self reliant, right and self sufficient and more in control of your career and your life. I was just talking to someone who she hasn’t, you know, she graduated college and Join the traditional like journalism job. And this was during the time when the 2007 2008 happened. And he was in New York at the time, and she saw Wall Street just combust. Wow. And she was, I believe, probably 24. So and I think, you know, at that time she had this realization that no matter how indispensable, you think you are to your company, ever is temporary, just a lot. Every job is temporary. So if that’s the case, why this in her words, you know, why would I allow an institution to control if I can put food on the table tonight, right? Or if I can get, you know, health care next year, right and so time, she just started looking into what it would mean to hold multiple jobs and she met her partner at the time who have kind of started living that lifestyle said look, give yourself a year and if you Don’t make the same amount of money that you did in the stable nine to five Chromebooks, right. And if you don’t make that same amount of money, and if you’re not feeling money, you know, money aside, if you’re not feeling just good, just on a mental emotional level, then you can always go back. You know, you people like you, you have relationships, you do good work, you can always go back and give yourself a year to figure it out. And she did. And that was when I think she was 24. And she hasn’t looked back since she was probably in her 40s. And she recently got laid off by a company that she was working with full time, but she had joined that company because of a personal interest in their mission. And she had been very hesitant to do that. And then she got laid off, but it didn’t faze her at all because she knows she has a roster of clients you can go back to at any given time and even while working full time, she didn’t have you know, anything in her agreement that said had like exclusivity, so she’s still do work, unrelated work with other clients, and this layoff hasn’t impacted her at all. And I wish that for everyone I wish that a layoff was in such a traumatic upsetting thing, but it of course, absolutely is because it is people’s livelihoods. So I going back to you know, I think it’s has to start at all levels. I think it has to start at the individual level as well, where we just start questioning. And I do think, you know, in order to even be able to question and think through these things, and then take appropriate actions, you need to have your basic needs covered. And I think most people, most people don’t even have the luxury to take a minute because they think needs covered. You know that and that that’s a reality that we have to kind of figure out how to navigate.
Coping With Change (42:55)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, you know, I come from a mindset work in the digital space and even working in television has never been, you know, the type of career where you can say, Oh, I’m set for the rest of my life, you know. But digital media is one that is constantly changing. We have a lot of startups, we have a lot of businesses that do well for a couple years, and then they disappear, you know, or get bought out by, you know, a bigger company or something. So, my mindset has never been to or think that I’m going to be somewhere for a long time. You know, if I tell my even the team that I manage at BuzzFeed, listen, you work in digital, you know, you can’t think that this is going to be forever this industry is in constant change, and constantly in flux to some way. So even if this year is great, not really sure what’s going to happen next year, so you need to be prepared. For that in your mind. So when the time comes, you’re not surprised, you know that, oh, we’re having layoffs or Oh, we got bought or something like that, because that happens. So you need to be prepared, you need to have, you know, make sure that your your skills are up to par and that you are having conversations to sort of think about the future, the future of what you want your life to be, you know, and a lot of people sometimes I think, won’t give themselves that, that opportunity to think about what if, you know, and I get everybody you know, it’s like, oh, we have to stay in a positive mindset, you know, but I found that if you think what if you there’s a space that you can go in your mind that you’ve prepared for something in case something happens?
Shireen Jaffer 44:52
I always Yeah, I agree. I always love to say obviously, this is a popular quote that I’m not paying for It’s, you know, hope for the best prepare for the worst. Yes. And that is something my partner and I live by, I mean, honestly, with even COVID right, we are fortunate to have a network that is very in tune that is hyper aware, we dig deep into research, we dig deeper into what’s happening in the world globally, not just in our country, and we went into quarantine in February, like mid February before any city went down in quarantine. And in America, and that’s because we saw what the numbers were saying and we were you know, we were hoping for the best we didn’t know obviously what would happen but we knew what could happen right? We’re hoping for the best preparing for the worst on you know, we had our survival kit packed up I still have a ton of you know, random horn team food. Yeah. In our closets, but I believe it was almost I think it’s right after Valentine’s Day, like 16th we went into quarantine. And I lay that into quarantine or shelter in place, I think March 15 or so. Later. Wow. So and I remember my brother who’s a doctor I had called him when we started going to party I was supposed to visit him in my family and you know, we we chose not to fly we chose to kind of just shelter in place and I had told him and he had said look like it’s good to be cautious, but don’t freak out. And this is coming from, you know, a healthcare professional, right. then a month later, I’ll actually three to three weeks later, he calls me He’s like, you know, sure. And I was reflecting on that call we had and, and in fact, how bad this could get right. It just goes back into Think for yourself and, you know, I sometimes they say Think for yourself and it sounds really sounds kind of negative but it doesn’t what it does is just simply give yourself the opportunity to ask what if give yourself the opportunity to go through those scenarios and See what can happen. And, and it’s really a it’s really a mental model that our schools don’t teach us. Right. And I think as adults, a lot of us struggle with knowing how to think about things. Because we haven’t ever been taught. And that’s unfortunate. But that doesn’t have to define your level of readiness, your level of thought process moving forward, right? That’s something I’m really passionate about is really introducing the concept of mental models, approaches of thinking, helping people recognize what their current blind spots are in their thinking. So that when these things happen, these things are these things are happening all the time. You know, some happening on a much smaller scale, obviously, but there are things globally happening that have an impact on us that have these trickle down effects that we are not even aware of. And then what happened and they don’t happen, how we expected them. We freaked out, we get anxious, we, you know, we feel like it just happened and it was out of our control. And I always push back there. And I say, Well, you could every you know, I believe that there’s a cause and effect relationship. And obviously, that’s, that’s a largely accepted belief. They’re there, every effect has a cause and every cause that has an effect. So if things are happening to you, if you follow, you know, if you follow the follow into the source, you’ll recognize where it came from and where it originated. And you’ll learn so much along the way that’ll not perspective. that’ll open your eyes, and some will be good, some will be not so good. But you know what, it’s not about positive or negative. It’s simply about knowing what is and if you know what it is, you can prepare and you can you can take the steps you need to
Trish Lindo 48:57
Yeah, I absolutely I agree. And I I love that you and your partner, you guys are always thinking, you know, in that way, it’s very inspiring. I love it. I think I will adopt some of that.
Shireen Jaffer 49:13
This is, I guess, you know, one of our biggest things that edco is, you know, redefining what it means to be educated in this world, right? For too long education, or being educated has been synonymous with your degree, or your status in society or title. And I have, unfortunately met too many people that are put on a pedestal that you know, just share information that isn’t accurate, and that is, well, well researched. And is it well informed. And when I say research, I don’t mean look at the research that’s trending that has all the quote unquote Best, you know, brains behind it guess look at the look at everything else to enjoy itself. And so at Evo, we’re really redefining what it means to be educated. We’re introducing the concept of, you know, do you know? Do you know how to learn? Or anything for yourself? Or do you have habits or tendencies or mindsets that limit you from learning, because if case if you feel limited, know that you Your body is made to learn your body is naturally made to learn that anytime, anyplace and, and it’s simply removing those limitations from our minds. Help us take you to the next step. So we’ll start introducing people to mental models and ways of thinking and allowing it to be digested in a way that’s fun, and that’s assessable and it doesn’t require you to have a lot of context Unfortunately, I think a lot of this information right now, for example, mental models, first principles, thinking running scenarios of thought experiments, right? Old things feel very critical, sophisticated. You’re presented in ways there that are very convoluted that assume you have a level of education and understanding and it just doesn’t make sense. Because if you look at a child, they are, you know, as, as soon as they can learn to speak, at least that’s when we understand it, but they’re born to be thinking of first principles. They’re constantly questioning why do things exist, which is the notion that suppose thinking, Why do things exist? And what are all the basic truths of this thing? And and and they do that they question it, but of course, our educational system and then of course as adults because the things that are happening right We look at a child asking those questions and say, well, because I said so or because that’s just how it is. Yeah. Dad of encouraging that line of thinking, not feeling a sense of ego, that, oh, I need to have all the answers for this kid simply saying, You know what? That’s a great question. I don’t know. But why don’t we look into it? Or even you look into it, go go talk to people that that want to talk to you about these things. Right? Why don’t bridge that line of thinking? That that really to me is a question that I’ve been asking a lot and getting deep into and, frankly, finding finding alternative responses for right.
Trish Lindo 52:46
Amen to that.
Shireen Jaffer 52:49
It’s been wonderful having you thank you so much for sharing your background. Your along the way. It’s such a pleasure.
Trish Lindo 52:58
Yes. Well, I appreciate you having me on your podcast. This was super fun and I love talking with you. You’re wildly intelligent. I am just always just learning so much when I talk with you, so thank you for this opportunity.
Shireen Jaffer 53:14
Of course no Same goes for you now how can our listeners find you? What? What can they keep track of what’s going on?
Trish Lindo 53:21
Well, obviously I’m on LinkedIn under Trisha Lindo. I’m also on social media. I’m very easy to find. Trish lindo style. I have Instagram account Pinterest. I love fashion. I love positivity. And yeah, those are my platforms. So yeah, check me out if you can.
Shireen Jaffer 53:43
Awesome. Thank you so much. Of course.
Also, our CEO, Shireen Jaffer, hosts weekly virtual hangouts to bring people together. If you want to know when the next one is happening or get the curated email update,
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